Συνέντευξη μίας επισκέπτριας από την Ολλανδία στην επέκεινα χώρα

Η Linda van Burgsteden (MSc International Land & Water Management) από την Ολλανδία επισκέφθηκε και διέμεινε στην επέκεινα χώρα για μια εβδομάδα τον Μάρτιο και μοιράστηκε μαζί μας την εμπειρία της μέσα από μία σύντομη συνέντευξη. Η Linda ασχολείται με τη διαχείριση υδάτων και στα βασικά της ενδιαφέροντα είναι η ισότητα των φύλων, η διαφορετικότητα και η κοινωνική ένταξη. Το μεταπτυχιακό της σχετίζεται με τη Διεθνή Διαχείριση Γης και Υδάτων και η ίδια θα ήθελε να ασχοληθεί με τη βιώσιμη ανάπτυξη και τη διαχείριση υδάτινων πόρων χωρίς αποκλεισμούς. Η Linda επέλεξε να ταξιδέψει στην Ελλάδα και συγκεκριμένα στο Ζαγόρι, για να κάνει πεζοπορία στα βουνά και να στοχαστεί και η επέκεινα χώρα εκπλήρωνε τις προσδοκίες της για μία ωραία και ουσιώδη διαμονή. Η αγάπη της για τη φύση και την πεζοπορία, αλλά και το ενδιαφέρον της για την περιβαλλοντική βιωσιμότητα, συνδυάστηκαν θαυμάσια στην επέκεινα χώρα. Στη συνέντευξη που μας παραχώρησε, μοιράστηκε μαζί μας τους προβληματισμούς της για την κλιματική αλλαγή, την αξία της βιωσιμότητας, την ανάγκη συσπείρωσης και ενημέρωσης των κατοίκων της Βίτσας και του Ζαγορίου για την ανάγκη προστασίας του περιβάλλοντος και μας έδωσε ιδέες για το πώς μπορούμε να ενισχύσουμε την καταναλωτική συνείδηση των επισκεπτών μας. Μας αποχαιρέτησε με την υπόσχεση να επιστρέψει στον φιλόξενο χώρο της επέκεινα χώρα και, γιατί όχι, να έχει ενεργό συμμετοχή στις δράσεις μας.

NY: Welcome, Linda. Summer is coming here in the Greek mountains. How did you choose the Land beyond for your staying in Zagori?

LVB: I think I really wanted to go to Zagori because of the mountains, I really like hiking in the mountains, I read somewhere that from Monodendri a lot of different hikes start so it is a good place to start and then I was just looking on google maps to see what kind of accommodation there were and then I found you, guys. 

NY: So you like hiking in the mountains?

LVB: Yes!

NY: Me, too. But I also like learning and reading and getting inspired in the mountain.

LVB: Yes, I can see that. You have a library here.

NY: That’s why we are organizing walking and talking activities in the Land Beyond. The Land Beyond means the land beyond the mountains in Slavic - where it comes from. Gora means mountain, za means beyond, so translated into modern Greek, means the land beyond the mountains!

LVB: I see.

NY: Let me ask you, what did you appreciate most while living in the area? Did your experience met your expectations?

LVB: Yes, I think so. I didn’t have too many expectations. I think the area is just really beautiful, there are a lot of hikes you can do and it was really nice to stay here and also I didn’t have a lot of expectations for this guesthouse. I just made a quick decision so I didn’t really looking to it too much but I saw very positive feedback from google and I saw that you have a cat (laughing!) and I needed to see this cat (laughing). Some people were really positive for this place and I thought that it sounds really good.

NY: Did you have some inspiration during your stay? An idea, contemplation, something that came to your mind, any idea for the future or your future or about nature, philosophy, or anything? Did the hike contribute to a learning experience?

LVB: Yes. I’m already thinking a lot about climate change and whenever you go to the mountains I feel like you can see the effects of the climate change already, so, for instance, I talked with a guy and he said that there is no much snow this year, so there is a lot of rafting and activities but if there is no much snow and then it will be less water so you think "Is it possible that these all may dry out at some point?”. You become really aware of the circle of life in mountains and the importance of water. That’s an inspiration you feel like.

NY: Did you study something related to climate change?

LVB: Yes, related to water. In the Netherlands there is also a discussion about water but there is enough and it will be enough, but here the circle is much smaller I feel and the impact will be felt more directly. Before coming here, I had not realized what kind of place this would be, that you were so focused on teaching and talking and sharing ideas. I didn’t really realize that, until I saw the library.

NY: Did you consider some sustainability efforts we undertake in this place? I mean we insist on recycling despite that the Municipality of Zagori does not unfortunately….

LVB: How do you recycle?

NY: We have the four colored bins where the parking area is, we have the electric vehicle so you can charge, we collect organic and we put it in the compost to rot, we put some small banners recommending visitors to put out heating and lights when leaving the place. We are trying to be sustainable. Did you consider this or do we have to put more effort for this, to make it more visible? or do we need to do more in general?

LVB: Hm, I don’t know. I didn’t see the banners above the heading, maybe too small. Sometimes some things are in Greek and I don’t know what is about so I can’t read it. I think you could showcase these efforts more, I think, if that’s one of the good things of your way of working, then yes you could be more expressive about it because I didn’t’ really noted that. 

NY: How many kilometers per day have you been hiking?

LVB: Oh! I always measure hours…

NY: Ah, you measure hours! Ok, average of hours?

LVB: I think 4 -5. Not too long. Not like 8 hours or something. 

NY: Were you afraid a bit? Because of the wild nature? I mean there are bears around… It’s a national park. 

LVB: I wasn’t so afraid of bears because I didn’t go too far…But at some point, I was hiking up to "Astraka Refuge” and there was still quite a lot of snow. That was a bit scary. 

NY: Your guide or the people you met were polite?

LVB: Yeah, yeah definitely. 

NY: Gastronomy? Did you like local gastronomy? Local food?

LVB: Yeah, I really like the

NY: "pita”?

LVB: Yes, the pies! 

NY: Have you noticed that the Land beyond is a place where we organize events, or you just see it as a place where you can find accommodation? Is it clear for you that it’s a venue, for knowledge sharing events?

LVB: Yes, because of the stage…Things probably happen here mostly during summer…

NY: However, we already hold it twice this year, in January and February. Some universities visits or walking and talking activities. Would you choose to organize an event here, like this? Combining the two elements: learning, experience, even conference and seminar on one hand and on the other hand small or big hiking or rafting and outdoor activities in nature?

LVB: I think If you want to make people more aware about climate and environment, then it’s really helpful to show them, to go out with them in nature and say this is what’s happening or this is what’ s going to happen if we don’t take care of them. You have to put people in the area and to tell them that there is a river now but it might not be there if we are not producing less carbonate cycle, or if we don’t clean up our waste, this is going to be very ugly and polluted and we don’t … so I think this would be a really nice idea to tell them about this area and the many species living here and the richness overall. 

NY: So you are thinking of coming back….

LVB: I would come back. If it would be organized, I would join definitely.

NY: So you think it’s an event destination particularly for environment and climate crisis topics. 

LVB: It could also be about tourism… sustainable tourism, about water, about development, like how have people lived in this area, how can they sustainably live, how do you make it socially robust… because they feel mostly empty except from summer.

NY: … that’s true…

LVB: … so how do you organize social cohesion…?

NY: … that’s an interesting question. 

LVB: It could be something about like what you did, a learning, sharing and cultural venue.  

NY: We may organize, like every year, a climate event. Our son, who is studying Architecture in Eindhoven, he followed all previous events but this year he wants to lead an event, to invite and to organize the topics and everything and we will support him.

LVB: What kind of topics do you usually talk about?

NY: We are thinking to link this year’s event on climate, we call it global land paths, that’s the title of the event every year and we want to link it with next COP under UN, which will take place in Azerbaijan and we want to be one of the local gatherings of young people to discuss on the agenda of COP, so we want to look at this.

LVB: So you are also interested in geopolitics?

NY: Yes, there is a geopolitics dimension on climate crisis but it’s also a question of environmental education. We also want to contribute to change attitudes, not only the big map, geopolitics, not only for the others to change but for ourselves to change as well. That’s the idea. That’s why a big part of this library is about diversity, integration, civil education, social economy, corporate social responsibility, civil society etc. So we want to provide knowledge and tools for personal change and personal responsibility. 

LVB: I also think that, because for me sometimes …the problems are so big, you can feel demoralized and just like none so whenever something is focusing on the small positive changes which you can make, that gives energy, a little bit of hope and a little bit of energy. I think that’s nice.

NY: Any other comment or idea or suggestion or something that went wrong or… anything that you would like to add. It’s not a professional interview. We publish a Newsletter, not printed, only electronic. Οne is for the Greek audience and the other one is for the non-Greek in English. From time to time, 2-3 times per year, we present some interviews like this for people who stayed more than 1 - 2 days. You got a broader experience, beyond your initial expectations, then please identify what attracted you interest.

LVB: I really liked this place, the quiet of it, the peacefulness and I generally like to stay a little bit longer to one place to settle down a little bit and not feel I’m rushing my trip. 

NY: That’s very good. This is also a change of attitude, to be more respectful to a place by giving it more of your time...

LVB: Yes, I don’t like that. I feel really rushed… 

NY: And this is more climate friendly… Yes, because if you stay, let’s say, 6-7 days, instead of 1 or 2, then you move less…

LVB: I drove a lot actually to stay to different hiking spots so I don’t know…

NY: Yeah but it’s not by airplane because the air flights are not climate friendly.  

LVB: No… I came here by plane and I really don’t like it. I tried looking into going by train, it would have taken three days and like 400 euros. I really looked into it.

NY: Nice. So, do you want to give us your e-mail address? We will send you an invitation if you decide to join the community by replying yes to receive the Newsletter.

LVB: Yeah, that’s fine!